All Heart Attacks Are Preventable: A Conversation with Rosanne Warmerdam - CEO of Healthblocks
Dean: If you look at the health system and the history of medicine, there’s a few major advances that have transformed human health, which is sanitation and maybe antibiotics, penicillin, and everything else is a marginal improvement outside of prevention. When did you realize that prevention was where you wanted to focus your career?
Rosanne: That is a really a good question. I have always had a big fascination with big problems in the world and chronic diseases is something that we discussed a lot during my studies as well.
The rise of chronic diseases, obesity, heart failure and anything that comes with it that is just preventable. I don’t believe that in 21st century, anyone has to die from heart attack because we can sense it, we can see it [00:03:00] coming. It’s developing for 10 to 15 years, and now we’re waiting for somebody to collapse.
And then within six minutes you have to act and somebody has to be in the right place at the right time to be able to get somebody back. And so the enormous rise in chronic diseases is cluttering up all the healthcare systems all around the world.
That is, I think one of the major issues in our healthcare systems is it’s just cluttered by chronic diseases. I think for a long time already for a decade, we were talking about, about a problem and we didn’t talk a lot about the solution.
And now the thing with the upcoming of data technology, web three, also a little bit, but also the IOT devices in the healthcare space, I believe we can talk a lot more about solutions instead of only about the problem. Although the problem is also society driven. [00:04:00] Prevention doesn’t happen in a doctor’s office, to be honest, it happens at the supermarket or in our bike lanes. It is happening in our day to day life. And it is not very hard to have a healthy lifestyle in our western society. But we can not solve that with the project that we are working on. But we can do something with with the data I think, and also the upcoming rise of IOT and health.
Dean: Yeah. That application of instant response to heart attack where sensors can detect if you’re imminently at risk of a heart attack and take steps to prevent it. That’s, I believe the number one killer at least in the west is heart disease, ahead of cancer. It’s number one. So that’s amazing. And that’s actually not a lifestyle. That’s not preventative, that’s responsive. That’s increasing the sensitivity of the response and the speed of the response using technology. So [00:05:00]. Let’s talk about where you first saw technology as your path. You’re young, you’re open minded, you got into crypto. There’s probably not that many people in the health field that know that much about web three, that’s not a major crossover area where it probably should be. So where did you go from biomedical to crypto? How did you first hear about crypto?
Rosanne: We first heard about the crypto back in 2017, 2018. When a lot of people that are not like really savvy also got to know about blockchain and Bitcoin and Ethereum and everything. And yeah, the private level, we got interested and kept on reading about it.
I think that’s a good thing where you have like a purpose in your life as well. You start relating it. So we, we just started relating it to the problems that we wanted to solve in healthcare. And I would say we, because I’m the co-founder of healthblocks I’m with two others as well. We also [00:06:00] co-founded another company also in the preventative healthcare space, but not tech driven.
It’s really community-based projects that we are doing. But we started relating it. Because I believe, truly believe in a digital infrastructure for prevention and data-driven infrastructure. And then when web-3 and blockchain came up, it seems like a possibility to have a way better data management about your health that can help prevention but also, as you said, like way more to the predictive side. That is where I believe in the prediction of our health also in the future, based on the data that we are logging in from our life already early on. So that was around like 2017, 2018, but it was pretty hard because there wasn’t a lot of projects out there.
But the greatest inspiration to be honest came from IoTeX, right from the start we got in touch with them. Almost the moment that they launched on Binance. [00:07:00] We had a lot of chats with [the IoTeX founders] and they really helped us to understand what is web-three and what’s going on.
And I do remember a conversation that we were having with Raullen and he told us: “guys maybe not people will be the users of blockchain or the most impactful users. But, [blockchain] will create a way for machines to be involved and have smart contracts with each other and create machine to a machine and machine to people economies.”
And so for us we realized what kind of like a future and new type of economies could evolve around technology like this and you start relating that into our area. We started to see like a picture of an ecosystem that could help in that. And from a previous research in the years before we knew one thing for sure: And that is if we wanted to build an innovative solution, we wouldn’t be building it in a healthcare space. [00:08:00] Because healthcare is the worst place to be innovative. So what we wanted to do is stay away from healthcare as long as possible. And focus on prevention, on lifestyle, make a very cool project, user-friendly and then start building bridges towards healthcare.
So a lot of people ask me, if we want to talk to healthcare professionals. And we know them pretty well. And the answer is not for now, we’re just starting outside of healthcare.
Dean: Yeah. So let me just ask you more about healthblocks specifically. What is the mission and the vision of healthblocks? And maybe tell me about who your co-founders are as well, and how you came together?
Rosanne: Yeah. So the funny story about our co-founder is that we are with the three of us, Ryan, Dan, and myself, and we are a family company because Dan [00:09:00] is my youngest brother and Ryan is my partner.
And we already founded another company together as well so we worked together for over six years now and it’s going pretty good. Like we all come from different backgrounds. So I’m from biomedical sciences, Ryan did his masters in science, business and innovation, also some physics and how to bridge the gap between physics and a market and new innovations.
And Dan has a masters degree in philosophy and politics. We just love to discuss things in life like innovation, healthcare and also ethics. And we share a lot of the same passions, We go out surfing a lot together.
In the Netherlands as well. It’s pretty cold out here. So we came to [00:10:00] see the same problem from different angles and have our own contribution to that. So we liked that about it. And when we started healthblocks, as I said we knew a lot about the healthcare sector in the Netherlands, but also in other European countries.
And we know we have to do better. And also if you look at the mission and vision of Healthblocks. Our mission is to unlock the value of health data, and then relate it to the IOT data. So data from wearables and all the data that we’re collecting in our day-to-day lives. And our vision is that data tells a great story.
It tells a story about the past, the present, but also the future of our health. And I think that we don’t realize how valuable that can be. And we can argue that maybe the quality of the data nowadays, it’s maybe not good enough to say something with predictive value about the future, but I’m pretty sure that within a couple of [00:11:00] years, maybe five, maybe ten, the sensors that we are carrying in and around our body or measuring our day-to-day lives, will be of such quality that it will have a great impact.
And as we just were discussing with the heart attack, I’m a true believer that one day a Nobel prize of medicine will not go to somebody who invented a medicine, but someone who who found an algorithm in a heartbeat sensor in an apple watch, or just a regular wearable that can detect an aberration in a heartbeat that can predict a heart attack in, one or two years, time. It’s still a long way to go. It’s as I said, it’s not an innovative business at all in healthcare, but I believe that we’re getting there.
Dean: Wow. That’s a fascinating prediction that a Nobel prize will be awarded to the inventor of an algorithm. Or maybe an algorithm itself. That would be [00:12:00] interesting.
Rosanne: Exactly. In web3 it can be an algorithm if the algorithm is made in a DAO.
Dean: That’s a fascinating prediction. And I agree with you. I don’t know much about the health space, but the logic is sound there. Let’s talk a little bit about data privacy. There’s an incredible regulatory apparatus around medical privacy and data. And that’s a problem for researchers and for developers. I remember in 2016, one of the first applications in crypto I ever heard about was from David Haussler, who was the head of the human genome project at UC Santa Cruz and he wanted to use ethereum to de-silo genomics data from individual hospital systems to create a global data set of anonymized individual data that researchers could tap into. And the key here is privacy preservation because it’s a very sensitive [00:13:00] data set. And it can hurt them if there’s insurance, specifically in a private insurance system, like the United States, so where does privacy fit into this? How do you ensure privacy preservation while financially compensating users for their data?
Rosanne: Yeah, that is a very valid point. So what we want to do is we want to give ownership and control back to the user, right? We want to give data ownership back to the users. And give the user the opportunity to control it. For example, will their data be used in research? Are they willing to, in a confidential way, share their DNA information with a third party? But the legislation that is out there now is based on an entity, for example, a corporation [00:14:00] owning the data.
And there is some regulations in place to prevent giving away the data in a way that the user won’t like. But if I am the owner of the data, the legislation doesn’t really see like that. Do I have autonomy to share with whom I’m wanting to share? There are some pilots running that if you do confidential computing and get AI to the data, instead of the data to the AI who owns the data?
That is a really open question because the legislation is made for the data handlers. So I think that is still out in the open and yet I believe that we should make it shareable. I do believe in a more open system.
I think that [00:15:00] is very important. And I believe that when it’s shared it should be shared by the user and not by a big tech corporation or, for example, a DNA company like 23 and me that has all the information in the backend and just earns quite a lot of money on it. And also the value of that data should flow back to the user.
That would be the most fair system, but you have to be very cautious to make sure that it cannot be used against you by for example, insurance companies. So there’s still some work to do.
Dean: So I noticed when downloading your app and signing up, you’re using mainstream sensors like Fitbit, which is owned by Google Garmin.
How do you separate the data generated by Fitbit and Google’s databases and give it to users? How does that process actually work from the user side?
Rosanne: Yeah. So we have to have a starting point, right? So we’re going with like a hybrid [00:16:00] model. Connect your wearables to healthblocks and we create this decentralized identity for you linked to the IoTeX blockchain. So what we basically do is make a copy of the data that is there in your Fitbit or any other wearable. And then we put that in your decentralized identity. It gives you ownership over a copy. Not yet full ownership, but you will have more control over it.
That’s like the starting point which we are thinking now, but of course in the future, we want to move towards, or we believe, and I hope the market moves towards that as well, more trusted devices will come through to the market in which the users are directly in control of their data and we don’t have to go through that loophole.
But I think it will be not in the near future, but I think it will come eventually. For some people it’s not a big issue that also the other companies also owns the data. But I think if you can make them like a mirror image of the data then you can have some of the benefits that the big corporations have.
Dean: [00:17:00] You can take back some negotiating power, which is really fascinating. Because a DID, a decentralized identity, in this case, essentially acts as a data locker where the user has the only key in this case, Google has one as well, but it’s a separate thing. So how does this actually work from the user standpoint? How much can they make? How much is that data worth?
Rosanne: That is the $1 million question that we are trying to answer with healthblocks. We have to take into account that it has different components. So when you have all the data in your data locker, then our question is for healthblocks, how can we help people to utilize it?
How can we make it valuable for them in two ways. How can we make it valuable to improve their health which is near to our hearts. And also how can we make sure it increases the monetary value? How can that flow back to the user?
[00:18:00] So to make sure that will happen we created a whole ecosystem model in which you have different components. First is rewards for healthy lifestyle which includes things like move-to-earn, and all the other to-earns we got to know in the past year. So people can earn health tokens that way. Tokens can be awarded for tasks like filling in a questionnaire or walking 10,000 steps or burning calories or completing a sleep goal. They will get rewards in tokens. But then there will also be other components, I’m most excited about the opportunity to create health services.
So it’s going to be an app store model, in which third-parties can offer their health services to healthblocks users. And you can pay in the tokens as well, and then you can help to increase your own health. And we also want to incentivize the third [00:19:00] parties, which can be for example, independent AI builders that maybe have the nobel prize winning algorithms to analyze your heart rate and say something about it. So they can build it without having to create their own app or do their own marketing. They can just use our ecosystem to get to the right people. And then another important form is the data exchange, like creating data pools. They don’t have the ability to request the data or time to call users on their own. These can be research institutes, or companies that do market research or anyone that has a query on the data surrounding the collective health tasks.
And if you want to opt into that data pool, you can share your data privately or confidentially, and you get a portion of the health rewards. So I think that is also one of the main difference between our approach and some of the move-to-earn approaches is that we have a more of an ecosystem approach.
So it’s not only rewarding people for healthy behavior. [00:20:00] But we really are putting a lot of effort to create an entire ecosystem in which the health tokens, but also improvement of health is achieved by our users. So the main question: what is it worth? So if you asked me, I believe that for competing the health goals, you should get a reward, but not as high.
I believe rewards that we’re seeing nowadays with some of the move-to-earn projects are way too high. It’s not normal to get like $30 for running a couple of normal strides. It’s not sustainable in my opinion. Because for us, the user should get the most money by sharing their data. By the data exchange or by the the interactions that they are having with third party
Dean: Yeah. This is a huge vision and I love it because it stays true to the actual vision of crypto, which is [00:21:00] essentially collectivized, financialization and financial action and endowing users with power in a way that they never had before in a centralized system.
And you alluded to Stepn and what we saw with the Solano ecosystem, where, if we’re being frank about it, is a pyramid scheme, which is fine. Pyramid schemes, they work, they can scale, in some cases they can even be sustainable, but it’s not contributing real technical value and it’s not really contributing any fundamental value to the ecosystem, in my opinion, it’s a cool factor. And when when in 2016, when I first got into crypto, the idea that crypto could be cool such that rappers like Snoop dog would be into this. That would have seemed ludicrous, right? People are basically buying $2,000 NFT shoes and there’s this kind of like rapper cool ecosystem around it that again,is just detached from core contributions to the [00:22:00] technical space around crypto. So you guys are doing it the right way. No question about it. This is an amazing vision that you have.
Rosanne: What do you think the reward should be for completing health goals like 10,000 steps?
Dean: Yeah, this is an interesting question because the idea that people need a financial incentive to take care of their health is already a weird concept to me, right?
Because for me, health is intrinsic. It’s like you feel better. It’s its own reward. We’re talking about people maybe on the margin who for whatever reason, maybe don’t feel that intrinsically motivated. But if you add a little bit financial incentive, they’re pushed into it.
And the bigger that financial reward. The larger that margin is the more people you’re going to get into it. The more the merrier, if it’s a government initiative there, they’ll fund it and hopefully improve public health that way. But I know there’s data out [00:23:00] there.
They’ve done research studies where they’ve enlisted participants and given them X amount of money to exercise. Is there any conclusive data about how much money equals, how much benefit.
Rosanne: It’s pretty hard because it’s the the data is pretty set apart. We ask a lot of people, of course, in the past couple of months, and we noticed a big difference between people that we are asking that are familiar with the web-3 space.
They are saying like, there’s 10 or 15 bucks is a good price. And then people that are not familiar with the space, just normal people that are using their wearables and they are very happy if they will get 50 cents or one dollar. So that is like a very funny thing that we’re seeing. But I do know from the data more than 300 million people worldwide are using a wearable on a daily basis, but most people lay them off already after six [00:24:00] months of use because they have to feel it got all the value out of it.
An average, how many steps you’re taking in a day in the office or on a weekend and you go outside. If you had a good or bad night of sleep and if your heart rate is going up or down, if you had a couple of drink. And they also feel a little bit spied on that, if they are not doing their thing, like a good lifestyle, then they’re are watching me, they [the wearable manufacturer] know what I’m doing. So people get de-motivated and lay off their work.
But more than 50% of those people would be motivated to keep on wearing it if they got a monetary reward. So I think, and this is what we concluded on this, is maybe it is not not about the size of the monetary reward, its more like people want more gamification within the process of their data. And what we are always really talking about is how to educate people on the value of [00:25:00] compounding data. Because if you look at it from a preventative and predictive health point of view, you want to have big data logs, both personally and vertically, for long periods of time, you want a lot of different data about yourself and that compounding interest will help you to stay healthy in the long run because you have more information to predict with.
So this is a new mindset that I think the public is not really aware of yet. And we have to find cool ways to game-ify on that point, like specifics. But I think it’s more than only giving out rewards. I do believe that.
Dean: Interesting. Yeah. And this opens up from a business standpoint an opportunity for partnership with these wearables companies who I’m sure are pulling their hair out at users dropping their Fitbits after six months. I know I didn’t last six months. I probably lasted a month, maybe less with my wearable.
Rosanne: Why is that?
Dean: Yeah I think[00:26:00] the novelty just wore off. I was like, okay, great, I walked that number of steps, cool. I got the data that I slept this much. The idea of a compounding benefit wasn’t there. And a financial reward maybe would change that, or if the insights changed, if you were able to generate compounding insights, that would be something I would be interested in, more than maybe the financial side.
So yeah, there’s there’s a lot here. The ecosystem vision you have is pretty big. You’rr familiar with the UBDI right? Universal Basic Data Income? I know there was a company, an app that launched a couple of years ago that claimed to offer users something like a thousand dollars a year for basically syncing their wearables data and their data from the health app on iPhone with research companies that were paying for data to conduct longitudal studies. There’s a lot of opportunities for multiple income streams from this [00:27:00] data. Do you have existing partnerships? Or where is the the first income stream gonna come from after you launch?
Rosanne: Yeah. So after we launch we are going to stay very close to web-three. We are going to launch an NFC game. We have to stay on brand a little bit [laughter]. And then we are going to roll out the ecosystem step by step.
And we’re first going to start with the concept of activity pools. So it’s also in the reward space and activity pools can be started by third parties, for example, lifestyle. And they set out a community challenge. So for example, let’s run 1 million miles together and you have to pay a little interest fee to participate in the pool also to have some skin in the game and to make sure that you’re motivated to keep them providing for that pool as well.
How you contribute to completing the activity pool, you get some of the pool rewards that are provided by the third party, which can be health tokens [00:28:00] can also be a specific NFT that they launch. So this is a very diverse revenue stream for healthblocks, because we are charging a setup fee for the pool.
And for them the benefits will be marketing and brand awareness, dipping their toes into the web-three space without taking a lot of risks. So this kind of like the first angle that we are going to take, and then we are moving towards the health services, which will be more like a tax model.
Just like the app store portion of the transaction fees. And then the data pools will be little bit more similar to the activity pool.
Dean: Yeah, no, I love that. I love data pools. I love the community focused part of it. That’s an amazing first application.
Rosanne: Yeah, but for research, for example? I think it will be pretty interesting because, I know research a little bit and I know that they don’t have a lot of money [laughs], so I’m not sure does they’re willing to pay a huge amount for the data, but also then I hope that [00:29:00] the community in web-three will say: “let’s keep the cost low for the research, because then you’re contributing to global health,” right?
If we are going to provide our data for little bit less than for the more for the commercial side of things. So I think we will try to find ways to to make it available for research because that’s the way to move forward and win the healthblocks nobel prize.
Dean: Absolutely. No, I love that. And do you have any plans for using pebble tracker or are you focusing on software only?
Rosanne: No, we are of course. Pebble tracker is our biggest motivations in the trusted hardware side of things, and also the entire machineFi vision.
Of course we are in very close contact with IoTeX all the time to see how can we integrate those things. Because we truly believe in that vision and the vision of healthblocks and I think the products that we are focused on are very [00:30:00] horizontal, and of course, building an infrastructure.
But I think on a fundamental level, we can really find each other about like data ownership, data control, and democratizing the value of the data. And we are we are living every almost every day like how can we integrate those things?
It’s always like a battle, like when can you really start using it? But yeah, no, definitely on the books to get those integrations going.
Dean: Yeah. And this is where IoTeX, I think, shines as it’s the only blockchain where you actually have a hardware secure hardware element that can capture real world data and directly transfer it on chain without going through a centralized third party. And that’s completing the full circle of the web-3 vision into the physical world, which for health data is a perfect application. So healthblock really personifies the MachineFi vision in every way.
When I was [00:31:00] working full time at IoTeX in early 2020 healthblocks was, we talked about it internally as an example of what this can look like. And the scale of your vision is really exciting. It’s almost unlimited in terms of what you guys are imagining. And so it’s really exciting that you have an app.I think it’s in beta now?
Rosanne: Yeah. So the app is in beta now and you can download it. Everybody can download it on Apple and it’s pretty simple, like you can get rewarded for completing health goals and our very basic data visualization and integrations with with Google fit, Fitbit and Garmin.
Apple Health is coming. So with apple watch, for example, you can now connect to Google fit and then to healthblocks. But it’s points that are going to be swapped for their real tokens once we go live. So we want to reward the early adapters who are testing itout.
And we’re really excited that we can really get started. We are a group of people that are working on it. We have a great vision but we want to [00:32:00] take a step by step. That is the most fun part of it all. So we’re really happy to see that people can just start using it and giving us all their feedback. Honest feedback.
Dean: That’s the beauty of it. Yeah. Lots of honest feedback. And and when is the app going to go live so to speak?
Rosanne: Yeah. So we hope before the end of this year that the main version goes live. And then we’ll be adding the NFT game. And then also we’ll go live.
Of course, there are a couple of things that are out of our control as well. Like everything is going on now. I think that it’s, our world is pretty much on fire.
Dean: Yeah. And what makes me very optimistic about you guys is, you have a very long-term global focus because what can happen.
And we see this with projects all the time is they’ll launch an NFT game or a token, and you [00:33:00] have exponential growth. And suddenly we’re talking about hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars that are just being generated. And it’s almost impossible for human beings in this modern world, not to be totally taken in and consumed by just that financial magnet, that just drags you in.
And the scale of the growth is just unparalleled for some of these projects. And, hopefully that’s a problem that you guys have. I wouldn’t be surprised, just given, seeing that what happened with Stepn and, I think you guys are way better than step in for a lot of reasons, but that’s my personal opinion.
Have you thought about that? How do you, how will you prepare for, or respond to an exponential growth? Let’s say you have a $5 billion healthtoken market cap within a month. Are you ready for that spotlight? For the pressure.
Rosanne: Oh I hope so. Yeah. I think that is something that we have a good luck that we have the [00:34:00] the co-founder team that we do have. A core team that is really down to earth. Maybe that’s just the benefits of being Dutchies. But as you said, we have a long-term vision and we thought about this so long, and it’s also, if you look at the roadmap, we started in 2019, 2020 thinking really seriously about healthblocks and it has taken a couple of different shapes and forms over time.
And it was only in the second half of last year that we really started building, because then we had the confidence that the conditions were ready to start building this out. And we had already invested already so much time and energy now in thinking about how the ecosystem should evolve.
Dean: Yeah. And I think just the sign of that is you waiting to do a token launch, and doing it the right way and having your values in place and your priorities straight.
That’s very positive and and comforting. Yeah, with that being said what’s the best way to get involved? Join telegram download the app. Any other ways to get involved with healthblocks?
Rosanne: Yeah, of course. Download the app, most ipmortant thing, start earning some healthblocks tokens. Telegram and Twitter. Those are the main channels that we have at the moment. And we’d love to hear from everybody [00:36:00] how they’re experiencing it.
They can share what they see in the app or how it should look like going forward. So everybody please feel free to reach out and get involved in the entire process.
Dean: I love the fact that you have [00:37:00] a philosophy major as a co-founder, I think there’s a dearth of a philosophical thinking in this industry. And I guess one final question while I have you here: in terms of the healthcare systems I’ve heard that the Netherlands has some of the best healthcare in the world. What do you think the U S can learn from the Netherlands? Do you think the system in the Netherlands would work in the U S or is there some fundamental difference between those countries?
Rosanne: Yeah so we do have a very good healthcare system. It’s accessible for everybody and we pay a monthly insurance. And its $150 to $200 then you have full access to everything. And there’s some risk associated with that, but if you pay $500 then there’s no risk Compared to US the numbers are really good.
Dean: That’s what a Tylenol costs and the us [00:38:00] hospital.
Rosanne: Yeah. So the thing is our system is not sustainable. Like none of the systems are sustainable at the moment because the pressure of the healthcare system is so big also in the Netherlands. And we’ve seen it during COVID. There’s one in six people have to work in healthcare to get everything rolling and we have to move towards one in four, and there’s a big shortage in personnel.
And it’s not getting better anytime soon. So I think of course it has to do with aging populations. We have an aging populations everywhere, which is pressuring the systems. I think chronic diseases and lifestyle related diseases are such a big class of people who need healthcare.
Now, we said like within 20 years then the Dutch government will not be willing to pay the amount of money that the [00:39:00] healthcare system demands. So although we are having a very good system, we have to innovate very quickly to keep it sustainable and accessible to everybody.
Because now we are on the brink of people falling out of the system and which is not a good sign, but I think it is everywhere, right? It is in the US, the pressure levels are rising. Even in the Scandinavian countries it’s rising.
Yeah it’s more also like a fitness question. Like how are we going to approach healthy lifestyle and monitoring diseases with everybody? And yeah, that is a pretty big questions, of course. But I think we have to address them because we’re getting some big touble.
Dean: Yeah, there’s a few things going on here. One is the demographic shifts. I think the U S and Europe in particular we’ll see, major population [00:40:00] declines over the next 50 years just because of birth rates and also the expansion of the health system to include mental health. Which is, probably the number one kind of generational shift in how the views of health and the general populace are changing, psychological health is being prioritize sometimes even above physical health.
Do you have a plan for integrating mental health data? Is that even possible?
Rosanne: It is definitely a plan to integrate mental health. The question is how much data can you get about somebody’s mental health. It’s pretty hard, but on the other hand, there will be some clues, right?
For example, heart rate variability, HRV, can say something about mental health, but I know also a couple of very cool AI projects. Sensing like the pressure that you are giving on your phone screen, like when you’re typing in, is a very big predictor for your mental health. And I know I don’t [00:41:00] want to name it anymore, but there’s one project that even links that to mental health support as well, that’s how a good of a predictor for for like mental crisis hard pressure on the phone really is. .
Dean: How does HRV correlate with mental health? I’ve never heard that before, actually.
Rosanne: When we are under a big stress which can be like physical stress, but also mental stress, HRV will be dropping.
The hard part of it, you have to see it in like a bigger picture. But I think, if you have like the bigger picture and that somebody who’s, for example age or fee has been down the amount of steps that somebody staking is going down.
So somebody is not leaving the house anymore, or, you can get her some clues within the data that says Hey, [00:42:00] how are you doing? Why are you still doing okay? Or is there something going on? And maybe then the pressure phone screen. I don’t know, but I think there will be some some very smart people that come up with some mental health data prediction predictions, but even more important I think for now is like mental health drugs.
Dean: Well Rosanne this has been a fascinating conversation. Thank you for your time.
Rosanne: Take care Dean thank you!