A Conversation With Giant Protocol
Founder Suruchi Gupta joins me on the IoTeX Ecosystem Podcast
Introduction
Today's conversation features Suruchi Gupta, founder of the Giant Protocol, and the name Giant is an apt one because Suruchi is one of the most ambitious and motivated founders I've ever met. The name giant captures the scale of her vision for the protocol. Giant is disrupting the telecom industry by creating an open permissionless market for bandwidth. IoTeX recently announced a strategic partnership with Giant to help connect their IoT ecosystem through Giant's open connectivity network which is why I asked Suruchi to join me for this conversation. If you want to read more details about IoTeX's Partnership with Giant click here. Timestamps are left into the body of the transcript so you can pull up the video on youtube and click to that time.
During this conversation, we discuss where Suruchi's ambition came from. Her vision for Giant, a demo of Giant's open data marketplace where she generously gifts me one gigabyte of data. The advantages of launching on a substrate chain, the tokenomics of the giant token and the long-term vision for bringing liquidity to as many illiquid markets as possible. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. And without further ado, here is Suruchi Gupta.
[00:01:20] dean: All right, Suruchi, thanks so much for joining me on the podcast. So you have a fascinating background. So let's start off with a bit of introduction. Take us through your background, professional and personal that led you to giant.
[00:01:35] Suruchi: Sure. So first of all, thanks for having me, Dean. Uh, looking forward to having this conversation. So my name is Suruchi Gupta. I was born and brought up in Mumbai. And growing up I was just fascinated by this group called the Tata Group for two main reasons. Number one, they've built this massive value for the world.
It's a 300 billion conglomerate. And then number two, which not a lot of people know, is that they distribute 66% of profits back to the community every single year. I wanted to build something similar that not only generated this massive value for the world, but also lifted humanity up at the same time, and I wanted to build that in a lot less than 150 years that it has taken Tata to build, which was the reason why I decided to strategically move to Silicon Valley, to just rapidly upscale my education, network, experience, everything that would be needed to build a massive global organization.
So I came here first for my master's in computer science, which I got from Santa Clara University. And then immediately after that, I secured a job at Juniper Networks, and it was at Juniper that my technical skills got advanced and also recognized. And around the same time that I was working at Juniper, I started participating in a bunch of hackathons to quickly validate all the problems that I was facing to test their business potential. To my surprise, me and my team ended up winning every one of the hackathons that we had participated in, which was a lot of fun. And that culminated in this final hackathon that was organized by data communications, where over 200 developer teams from all around the world had participated, and we were declared as a global prize winner of that.
So after winning the hackathon, we became the only team to have gotten incubated by data communications. And that incubation was held under the direct supervision of the president of data communications. So, as you can imagine, that experience really cemented the network experience, concept, validation, everything that I had moved to Silicon Valley for, and the best part about it for me personally was that from inspiration to realization, it literally came full circle for me with the Tata group where my childhood inspiration also became the foundation of how Giant got started and where we are just a few years later.
So I couldn't have asked for a better start and it’s been quite a fun journey.
[00:03:55] dean: Wow, that's amazing. So you were clearly so ambitious from the get-go, even as a kid. Do you have any sense where that ambition came from?
[00:04:05] Suruchi: Hmm. That's a very good question. I think probably that comes from my upbringing and also just being in India. Indians just tend to be very competitive. And so that really goes back to my childhood and upbringing. I come from a school where every Saturday we used to have a competition and it was compulsory for us as kids to actually participate in that competition.
And the whole idea for that, for our school to have such a program was so that as kids we could identify what skills are we good at. And so I'm the youngest person in my family, so my eldest sister would really push me and encourage me to actually participate in those competitions.
Because as you can imagine as a kid I [00:05:00] hated the fact that every Saturday I had to go to school. And not only that, but I also had to participate in a competition. And every Saturday it was a totally new competition. I would just crib and cry about it, it was almost like why are you torturing a kid?
And then my eldest sister, she was like, you know what? You are a quitter. You're never going to be a winner. And I just took that to heart and I was like, you know what? I'm not a quitter. I am a winner. So what I started doing was every Friday, just a day before the competition, I started preparing a little bit for the competition and gradually I started winning every one of those competitions.
And in fact, my school had to create this rule where if you have already won the competition one time, then you cannot win the competition another time. So by that time, I already had this virtuous circle though, where iI just figured that if you just try and if you put your heart and soul to try something out, you can actually make it happen. So it was like that, that whole virtuous circle got created for me at a very, very young age. And that cultivated that limitless thinking mindset in a way where it was like, I can do anything if only I set my mind to do it.
So it was a combination of just being put in that environment where it was like you had to compete and not necessarily for competing, but more for from the standpoint of learning. So for me it was like that drive to actually learn initially, which started out of frustration and it was almost a forced learning environment in a way.
But then gradually the more I started doing that, I started loving it and that just created this limitless thinking mindset in me where it was like, yeah, I can do anything and everything. Which is the reason why, if you think about it, when I also came to the US I actually resorted back to competitions.
Because that was the only thing I knew growing up. But of course the competition style this time around was different, which was hackathons. But in a way it goes back to my childhood, and that upbringing that I had. So it's all thanks to my elder sister and also the school that I come from.
dean: Yeah. The older sibling nudge, I have two older brothers. I'm also the youngest, so I completely relate. It pushes you beyond what you think is possible. And the competition component that you mentioned is really interesting because, In my opinion, web three is about bringing the competitive marketplace into centralized industries that have set themselves up outside of the competitive sphere, which is the whole issue with centralization is it destroys competition. And so that makes sense. That makes sense why you were drawn to web three and crypto because it's just the philosophy of competition taken to the extreme in the economy.
[00:08:20] Suruchi: That's right. You are absolutely right about that. And in fact, in Web Three's case, I would look at competition in the sense that it makes it more fair and inclusive. Right. Versus competition in such a way that it's like it's a zero-sum game.
Web three is all about making it more inclusive. And so what drew me to Web three was certainly the aspect of it, making it more fair, inclusive, accessible to anyone, and also sharing that ownership with everyone that is now able to even participate. So there were all those aspects of it that I was drawn to.
[00:09:01] dean: Mm. Interesting. And when you talk about getting drawn to it, where was that in your timeline? When did you first get into Web three before you even thought about Giant, what was your first exposure?
[00:09:13] Suruchi: Sure. So going back to the hackathon, it was a very simple idea. Why can't we just buy and sell bandwidth from anywhere in the world instead of needing to buy it directly from the local telecom providers. So it was a simple idea to build this global data marketplace where anyone can just buy and sell data from each other.
That was the idea. And this was before I knew anything about blockchain. And then after winning the hackathon, when I started digging into, hey, how do you actually solve this problem? And there I learned about Ethereum and smart contracts, and it was clear to me that this is the only way for me to actually [00:10:00] solve this problem.
And I vividly remember for nights, several nights in a row, I just couldn't sleep because I was just absorbing everything I could read about Ethereum, smart contracts, everything there was to learn. So this was end of 2016, 2017-ish timeframe that I would say. But that was essentially how I stumbled upon blockchain and crypto.
So it was really the potential of this technology that drew me into it. And instantly I knew that this was going to be the future where every industry out there would be leveraging blockchain at some point. So I knew that this is the only way for us to solve this problem, so it was very clear.
[00:10:42]dean: I relate to that experience of getting bit by the blockchain bug and contracting the virus where you're feverishly up late at night, you can't sleep. You're just obsessed with it. And you just want to understandhow is it possible to do all these things trustlessly? Like we can rearchitect the legal system, corporate structures, the financial system, it's unlimited. I related it to my generations .com era.
[00:11:11] I was so mad that I missed the 1996, 1999 period, and I was like, thank God my generation has a chance to do the same scale of change in the world. So I want to ask you though, how, how did you settle on this idea of telecom data markets? Cuz it's a brilliant idea. How did you even think to focus on that?
[00:11:35] Suruchi: Sure. So as I was mentioning, it was really a personal problem that I faced, and that I couldn't find a solution and pitched it at the hackathon. So the personal problem was very simple. We all have a different provider for our home wifi, a different provider for mobile internet, a different provider when we are going online on the plane.
And then when we are traveling internationally, it's an even bigger nightmare. Whereas there are, there is already this over-provisioning of networks of bandwidth that we always come across. Anytime you open your phone and look for wifi hotspots, there are dozens of wifi hotspots everywhere that are just locked, right?
So there was always that excess capacity or over-provisioning of networks that I saw. And on the other hand, I had all these friends that had unlimited data plans. So for me it was like, why can't we just buy, sell data from each other so that I don't have to pay these overage fees to at & t?
So I've had my own share of getting those overage fees back in the day and it used to frustrate the hell out of me that just a couple of days before the billing cycle renewal I'm charged $15, $20 in overage fees.
I think we can all relate to feeling annoyed about that. So that was really where it was for me. I, I saw this problem, I experienced it multiple times, and there is a funny backstory to it where I was just so frustrated about having to pay these overage fees that I would keep my data completely turned off.
There was this one funny story where I was supposed to go to my friend's place for dinner and my data was completely turned off and I was waiting for an interview decision via email. And so I reached her place, and then I literally yelled, “Hey, what's your wifi password?” Even before taking a stock of the situation or of the place, and that didn't happen one time, it happened a few times where I would just be so desperate that when I would go to people's place I would ask them, “what's their wifi password?”
Even before asking how are, how are you doing? Or just, you know, casual chit-chatting. And so my friend started giving me this nickname, which is called Chidi. It's a Hindi name, but it basically means stingy because it happened so many times.
And so you can imagine. How, how much I hated earning myself this nickname, which is Chidi. So there was part of that frustration of earning that nickname. And then at the same time, I think also logically it made so much sense to me that why do we have all these law? I mean, why is there just no easy way for us to go online anywhere in the world?
Without all this hassle of having a different provider for [00:15:00] your device, a different provider for home wifi, a different provider for in-flight connectivity, different provider when we are traveling internationally. To me, the whole experience was very cumbersome. And, that is where it screamed inefficiencies to me also. And at the same time, there was this personal story of me earning that very silly nickname. So a combination of the two.
[00:15:26] Dean: That's, that's an awesome story. And what I noticed with you is you have that classic entrepreneur personality where most people, there are issues in the world and they just accept it. They're like, all right, this is the way things are. We have five different data providers, fine. That happens to you and you get pissed off. You're like it doesn't have to be this way. Let me fix it. Right? And there's a small sliver of the population like you that actually just don't just accept things, right? You get annoyed, you have a capacity for impatience and annoyance, which is actually an incredible asset because that's how our society moves forward. And so thank god for that. And so let's hear about Giant. So can you describe what you're building at Giant? The history, so when it was founded, what the vision was and how it's unfolded, where it is today.
[00:16:23] Suruchi: So in Giant's case, actually our vision has been the same from day one. Our vision at Giant is to build the final bandwidth marketplace for the planet. Now think about it as what Giant is doing. Ar Giant, what we are building, is we are turning bandwidth into an asset, bringing liquidity to bandwidth and creating a liquid market for bandwidth that has never existed before. And by virtue of us creating that liquid market for bandwidth, we are now also able to create financial markets for bandwidth that have also never existed before. Think about us as a market maker for bandwidth, basically. Or in other words, you can also think of us as Airbnb for internet connection. There are a lot of different ways in which you can think about it.
[00:17:09] dean: So this connectivity, it's done through partnerships. So this is kind of the interesting point I think for a lot of people, is how do you actually go about getting data providers to sign on? And give their excess data to you. How does that work?
[00:17:24] Suruchi: Yes, sure. We all know that we are already spending trillions and trillions of dollars on connectivity like essentially there is more than $2 trillion that is spent on connectivity contracts by both consumers and enterprises annually. And there is more than 25% of network capacity according to estimates that is underutilized.
Yet there is no liquid market for bandwidth. So what that basically means, as a provider, now I have all of this excess capacity that I just don't have an easy way to actually sell. So what Giant is enabling for those providers is it is giving them an easy way to basically monetize that excess capacity that they already have.
[00:18:09] Suruchi: And that's where we, By virtue of us essentially allowing them to monetize their existing excess capacity. We also help them acquire new users, which they would otherwise not be able to get access to. And then also lower cost of capital, because now bandwidth is just turning into an asset.
[00:18:34] Suruchi: And then just like what you do with an asset, you can trade transfer, collateralize, all kinds of those things just become possible for providers as well as for any other participant in the community as well.
Dean: Right. Okay. And so who are you working with to get the bandwidth? Is it web three protocols like helium, or are you also working with major telecom?
[00:18:57] Suruchi: Great, great question. So basically in Giant's case, think of us as an aggregator. So we are technology agnostic so we are converging the existing telecom networks, which are the networks owned by at and ts of the world, as well as these up-and-coming decentralized wireless networks, which are the heliums and pollen mobiles of the world.
[00:19:21] Suruchi: So in Giant's case, we are essentially building a layer on top of that physical infrastructure so we call this layer that we are building as DIAL or decentralized internet access layer. So think about it as a new layer that is being built on top of that physical infrastructure where we are just aggregating all connectivity options and all networks out there.
[00:19:50] Dean: I think this is what's so beautiful about Web three and blockchain is it actually allows you to take an existing asset and staple on top a [00:20:00] decentralized layer that introduces market competition and creates a more equitable distribution of that asset and injects liquidity to it.
[00:20:09] As you say, this is a market, this is a market that isn't a market. There is a lot of wasted bandwidth happening. So what's the state of your network? I mean, I've, I've used it and it's magical, really. We did a demo where you sent me a gigabyte and in about two seconds it was on my phone. So why don't you just describe how that works?
[00:20:32] Suruchi: I can actually give a demo to the audience.. Great. I think Dean, you're also, you are again going to get free internet now
[00:20:42] Suruchi: so let me share my screen and actually let me share my screen and everyone a demo.
For demo, click here and scrub to 20:42 for the video.
[00:22:45] Suruchi: So anyone can just come to the giant shop and they can get started in three simple steps all under five minutes. And not only go online, but they can also become an owner in this global connectivity economy that giant is building just by using internet. So I am going to gift another gigabyte to you. So anyone can just come here and using a credit card they can buy a data plan. There are already a billion plus e-sim devices that exist on the planet, as long as you scan that QR code, you will instantly be able to access internet through Giant. And that's it.
[00:23:53] dean: And, this is the magic of esim technology, which if you've purchased an iPhone in the last several years, most Android I think is compatible. It basically means that, let's say when you travel abroad, most people have had that experience of having to switch out their sim card, you know, losing their original SIM card and then having to come home and deal with it.
And it's a cumbersome process. It's expensive. And when you're abroad, especially, you don't really know the terms of, this network you're signing up for. I mean, I've had experiences where I get major bills, uh, because I can't read the contract. It's in a different language, you know, and you just, you just, uh, hope for the best.
[00:24:33] dean: So with e-sim, I mean, it's as simple as it gets. It's really a magical technology, and giant itself is three clicks you're set up. It's kind of like the Uber thing. The first time you use Uber and a car just shows up and your mind is blown. You're like some random guy's car is here to drive me.
[00:24:50] dean: It's the same thing where, you know, it's an actual step forward in technology because of how well it works and how large of a problem [00:25:00] it solves for most people. So, yeah, congratulations on getting this far. So where do you go from here? So the network already works. I mean, it's kind of remarkable how successful this product already is in terms of functionality. What's your goal? What's your product timeline look like?
[00:25:19] Suruchi: Sure. So basically what I just demoed to you was our private beta, we actually haven't publicly launched, uh, the full platform yet. That's the next big milestone for us where it would be, a public launch of the, of the network.
[00:25:33] Suruchi: So basically, right now the giant token itself is not liquid. So as far as part of the public launch, the token becomes liquid, basically.
[00:25:43] dean: Okay. And can you describe the technomics? Because the way it works right now as far as I understand, is when you purchase, you get some money back in the token, which is then auto staked into an automated market making system. So what's the function of it? Why do you get money back?
[00:26:01] Suruchi: Sure, sure. So basically, as I was, as I was demonstrating, when you purchase that bandwidth contract, . So at that time, , so one you're paying in USDC or um, or Fiat, essentially using your credit card to u to purchase that, uh, bandwidth contract. Now, after you purchase that bandwidth contract, what is happening in the background is that the protocol takes a 5% fee of that.
[00:26:27] Suruchi: So that's first and foremost that happens, giving 95% of it back to the provider. That's the second step. What then happens is as I'm consuming bandwidth, there is some work being performed to cryptographically verify that yes, one, the provider did deliver the internet. And then second, I did receive the internet.
[00:26:47] Suruchi: And it is for that work that is getting performed, that we are rewarding the consumers as well as the providers to help us cryptographically verify that yes, internet was in fact delivered. And that is in the form of 40% going back to the consumer and 30% going back to the provider. Meaning that is just how, that is just a tier that we are starting with.
[00:27:11] Suruchi: It will geometrically decline, um, depending on certain milestones or certain transaction volume that gets hit. All of this is already on our white paper, like in our white paper in terms of what those, uh, tiers look like. So that's like, that's basically, uh, you know, the third step. third, fourth step where , we, we reward, , the consumer as well as the provider with giant tokens based on, what transaction volume tier looks like.
[00:27:39] Suruchi: The next thing is anyone can stake their giant tokens into a provider pool. And this is the same provider pool, by the way, when you were saying that tokens get auto staked into. Right. So when I'm buying this bandwidth, uh, contract, To me as an end user, they experience is as simple as buy, scan, own, where it's like I'm buying this contract.
[00:28:00] Suruchi: Let's say I spend $10 on that after I connect my, um, esim to the, to the phone, meaning after I scan the esim to my, from my device. After that I start consuming internet. And that's when at the end of that, um, contact. Meaning if it is a 30 day contract, at the end of the 30 day period, I'm actually rewarded in giant tokens, which is 40%.
[00:28:26] Suruchi: I get back. So it's like if I spend 10, I get $4. So that $4 gets auto sticked into a provider pool and that pool, what that pool is doing is that pool is helping secure the delivery of the internet service itself. So for whatever reason, let's say if I purchased a contract and I could not use internet , that pool automatically gives the refund back to the consumer.
[00:28:51] Suruchi: That's the reason why this pool is, uh, is helpful. And so not only do the provider tokens or the consumer tokens get auto staked into the pool, anyone from the community can also stake their tokens into the pool. Okay. And so on one hand what that pool is helping us do is that it is helping secure the delivery of the DCT itself.
[00:29:14] Suruchi: And because it is helping guarantee that refund for the provider, the provider is giving additional 5% of their sales to the Stakers in that pool, because now it's the community that is bearing that risk of covering the refund. And that's where essentially, Anyone that is staking into the pool. On one hand they get 5% of whatever the provider is making back as as rewards.
[00:29:42] Suruchi: And then second, what is also happening is these tokens that anyone has staked into a particular provider pool, they get auto bonded with a validator also in our ecosystem, because we have an N-POS chain. So it's like [00:30:00] when those tokens get auto bonded with a validator, that validator now is helping us secure the ledger or the protocol itself.
[00:30:09] Suruchi: And that is why we have a set number of block rewards allocated for the, um, for the validators. And so that's where you also now earn additional 13% apy. So essentially anyone that is staking into the pool earns from two sources. One is from securing the DCT or covering the refund itself. And then second is protecting or securing the ledger.
[00:30:34] Suruchi: And that's where they earn 13% APY plus 5% of all sales from that provider. And as you can imagine, uh, that 13%, because we have a deflationary token, the 13% apy, will geometrically decline 1% annually. But around that same time, we expect the 5% of sales of the provider to actually exponentially grow. And this is how we make sure that on one hand we are able to offer really good incentives to bootstrap the network while at the same time building a long term sustainable economy because it all starts from the purchase of a bandwidth contract and all of the usage in our network and in this economy is tied to the actual usage, which is the bandwidth.
[00:31:22] dean: And this, this to me is why Gavin Woods's vision of substrate chains makes so much, makes so much sense because you can actually institute incentives that allow for the network to propagate in a decentralized way, to grow increasingly decentralized as the network grows. Um, it's much harder when you're reliant on a base chain and you're developing a DAPP to institute that kind of, those modular incentives at the base layer of the chain.
[00:31:51] dean: So an application that's as e xpansive as giant is a perfect use case of a substrate chain. So that's where basically it's this, it's this idea for those that don't know of having basically one blockchain per dapp so that Gavin Wood, the CTO of Ethereum, went on and started Polka Dot, which has then kind of spawned a, a whole ecosystem of one chain, one Dapp and Giant, I think is one of the best examples I've seen of the reason why these substrate chains, um, exist.
[00:32:24] dean: So, can you describe like, Yeah, , you're welcome. Tha thank you for creating this. Um, and uh, so the actors in the system, this is gonna grow increasingly decentralized. I'm sure you're handling on the backend a lot of the contract issuance. The founda, the giant foundation is early on, but you're onboarding validators to actually issue contracts.
[00:32:47] dean: What's kind of the t imeline for decentralizing this network, increasing the DAO activity. How does that look now? Where do you want that to head?
[00:32:55] Suruchi: Absoluty Great. Great question. So I think the first immediate milestone for us is to. Make the token itself liquid, right? The public launch of the, of the platform itself. That's the immediate milestone. Now, after that, uh, what, what we have, um, next is allowing community validators to be onboarded. So at the moment, we only have select, um, we have only like key telecom partners as our validators.
[00:33:23] Suruchi: And that's by design at the moment. That it is, it is, it is that way. So the next thing would be, uh, once, once the network itself is publicly launched, the ne next thing would be to allow anyone from the community to start becoming a validator. We already have received, uh, 50 plus requests from the community, even though we've not publicly even asked or announced that we are starting our validator program yet.
[00:33:53] Suruchi: So it's, it's, it's great to see the community excitement to actually be a part of the network already. So that would be the next thing. And then once, uh, that happens, then the next milestone, the third milestone for us would be to turn this into a DAO. And then just, um, let the community, you know, vote on proposals after that.
[00:34:15] dean: Right. Right. That makes sense. And the timeline, can you just walk me through the timeline for your main net launch, if you have a sense of when all this is gonna start unfolding.
[00:34:25] Suruchi: Yes. So I think, so we, we are targeting the main net launch to be in the next, uh, You know, three to four, four months time. And then after that it would be another, uh, quarter or so for us to, uh, enable the NPOS chain, basically n p o s consensus. And then after that it would be, um, the next milestone would be turning into, into, into a DAO.
[00:34:51] Suruchi: So I would say safe to say it would be another nine to nine to 12 months by the time that actually happens
[00:34:58] dean: And do you have a [00:35:00] wishlist once you launch for developers? What would you like to see built, integrated on Giant?
[00:35:07] Suruchi: Yeah. No, I, I love that question because I, so one of the things that we would immediately love, uh, to happen is turning these contracts that we have into a cross-chain. Because these, so when I was sharing my screen, those cards that you saw on the screen, they were nothing but and maybe I can share my screen and show again what I mean.
[00:35:29] Suruchi: So essentially these cards that we are showing, that we are, that we are seeing over here, they're actually nothing but NFTs. And so as we know, like with an nft, we can trade, transfer collateralize, do all kinds of fun stuff. Similarly with this contract, which in our ecosystem, by the way, we are calling as D C T or data contract token now imagine being able to do all of those fun stuff like trading, transferring collateralizing. So what I, what I mean to say is the next milestone for us, or one of the things that we would love for love, uh, developers to build is actually. these DCTs into a cross chain asset to start. So start accepting DCTs in existing NFT marketplaces.
[00:36:16] Suruchi: In centralized exchanges. In decentralized exchanges, in wallets like anywhere, uh, where users already go to buy assets, they can, they should be able to buy a DCT from, so that way it just turns. It just turns these DCTs, which are actual, you know, tokenized bandwidth contracts to really become an, become a cross chain asset that you can do anything with, with essentially.
[00:36:44] Suruchi: So it just opens up a world of possibilities of what can now be done with, uh, these bandwidth contracts. So it's like, think about bandwidth, as currency bandwidth, as collateral bandwidth as like, um, for, I mean we also, we also envision s econdary markets for bandwidth getting created where it's like, Hey, you know, now I'm, I'm, I'm, uh, transferring bandwidth in US, or meaning I'm trading my bandwidth in the bandwidth contract in the US with a bandwidth contract, let's say, you know, in Japan and things of that nature.
[00:37:15] Suruchi: So we certainly envision those kinds of secondary markets also getting created for it. Dexes all of that fun stuff that you can basically do with, um, a, with a, with an asset now, which is bandwidth as an asset.
[00:37:28] dean: What this brings to mind for me is how critical of an asset bandwidth is. It's like, it's like water in our society, and as we think about, you know, the attention on censorship is very high right now with Elon's takeover of Twitter and bandwidth is like the core entry point into the global conversation, and you can think about a future where governments or public companies are pressured by governments to shut off bandwidth for certain individuals or corporations or groups. And if you can have an immutable, decentralized bandwidth layer, I mean, this is a core, um, infrastructure that is needed in the decentralized world that is missing right now. So there's a huge, like almost human right component to what you're doing on top of the financialization, but it all goes together because having that financial interoperability is f undamental to making it an open asset that can be bought by anyone without needing an identity check or, you know, going through any of those artificial gates.
[00:38:35] dean: So yeah, this is a tremendous, uh, service to humanity, I think as well.
[00:38:40] Suruchi: You, you hit it, you hit it right off the right outta the park. In terms of also, uh, hitting that cord, which is, that's our mission, which is to basically just build a more open and inclusive internet that is accessible to anyone, owned by everyone and to us you know, as a team, we really look at this as a responsibility.
[00:39:00] Suruchi: Where we believe that we have this responsibility to build a key fundamental infrastructure for humanity that can outlive all of us. And that's where, um, to us, like, you know, internally, every, every time we have to think strategically, um, of, let's say for example, our tokenomics also, we were constantly challenging ourselves to think about, Hey, what's the world going to look like 40 trillion years from now?
[00:39:24] Suruchi: Nobody knows the answer to that, but at least just, uh, thinking about building it in such a way that, um, it can really bring that value that can be shared pretty much by anyone and everyone that is using bandwidth or using internet on the planet. So that's where it's, it's, it's, I think, one of those missions that is really important and critical.
[00:39:50] Suruchi: Like, you know, like you said just like how it is, how water is so essential, right? Like we can't imagine living without internet the rest of our lives, [00:40:00] right?
[00:40:00] dean: Yeah. And I also, I mean, I don't know why this hasn't been a larger conversation in crypto. I mean, what you're building is so important, and I hope I can amplify this conversation and, uh, get as many people to see it as possible and, um, to, to bring this to the forefront, what you're doing.
[00:40:21] dean: I wanna ask you the calls to action for people. You know, obviously you want people to, to use your service, to try giant out, buy bandwidth, gift it to friends, that's probably number one. But for people that are maybe wanting to get to the next level of engagement, what does that look like for you?
[00:40:38] dean: What's the call to action?
[00:40:39] Suruchi: Yeah. So then, so the next step would be actually, um, coming to us with ideas in terms of how they can integrate DCT and build, you know, tools, technologies, applications that leverage bandwidth as an asset.
[00:40:54] dean: So developers Or just people with great ideas, um, reach out
[00:41:00] Suruchi: and also all, you know, all ambassadors that want, want to onboard new users, that want to bo, that want to bring giant to local communities in different regions that want to onboard, um, new providers onto Giant. So it's like we are building a massive global connectivity. So, I mean, to us this is a multi-trillion dollar truly user owned connectivity economy opportunity that we have.
[00:41:29] Suruchi: And so we essentially want as many, um, folks excited and getting behind this mission. And I think to your point regarding why has, why is actually the larger crypto community not, um, not bullish on it yet. I think there are a couple of reasons. One is, Giant couldn't have been possible if it was not for all this awesome and brilliant work that a lot of, um, you know, like folks in crypto are working on.
[00:42:00] Suruchi: Like for example, as you mentioned about Gavin Wood's, uh, polka dot and substrate, right? If it was not for substrate, we wouldn't be able to actually build this connectivity blockchain and the use case, the way we are building it. That's one thing. The second thing is that, uh, without NFTs we wouldn't be able to really build DCTs right the way we wanted to in terms of making it very customizable.
[00:42:25] Suruchi: Without Defi, there would really not be any financialization of bandwidth, which, uh, which brings that liquidity to bandwidth. Without esim, there wouldn't be, it wouldn't even be possible for us to do anything in terms of, um, being able to turn bandwidth into a globally tradable asset. So there are all of these key enabling technologies that actually make giant possible where it's like, uh, where in fact, um,
[00:42:51] Suruchi: a lot of my conversations when I have with folks, they're like, in giants case, we are actually using the best of all the technologies that blockchain world or crypto world or Web three World has offered today by like until now. And combining that with a real world utility, which all of us already use. So from that standpoint, if you think about it, that combination wasn't really possible until now.
[00:43:18] dean: I want to ask you what you anticipate or what you've already experienced as the people that are the institutions that are most resistant to you, are you seeing headwinds from any actors in the system, governments, telecom, other people?
[00:43:33] Suruchi: Sure. So I think headwinds would always be there for an industry that is as new as this. Right, and as disruptive, uh, as this could be, and transformative as this could be as well. So certainly I think we keep coming across, uh, across like, um, just folks from the telecom industry, the good ones as there is the bad ones, where they are like, Hey, this, this just doesn't make, this just doesn't make any sense.
[00:44:03] Suruchi: Where it's like some of them also think about this as a, as a potential threat to, to their existing business also. So it's like, of course there's like, there are all kinds of new perspectives and different perspectives rather that, that, um, that different folks have about a new and emerging technology like this.
[00:44:24] Suruchi: And so, because as I was mentioning, Giant was not possible without those four key enabling technologies that I mentioned to you, which is one is substrate. The second is, um, is NFTs then, then it is Defi, and then there is esims, right? All of those four key enabling technologies without which we wouldn't have been, it wouldn't have been possible for us to build Giant the way it has been built
[00:44:45] Suruchi: And when you look at all of these technologies, they're all emerging in their own right, so in a way what we've managed to do, and I'm very, very proud of the work that, you know, the team has, uh, team has done is quite unique and [00:45:00] quite novel. And so it's like sometimes it's a lot for a lot of people to even, um, grasp where it's like, wow, really.
[00:45:10] Suruchi: And I think the challenge for us, um, which is also the opportunity is to really just keep it very, very, simple where it's like, of course for the crypto audience, they get excited about learning the nitty gritties and um, how all of this actually works. But now from an end user's perspective, which is just a retail user, it shouldn't really matter to them, right?
[00:45:32] Suruchi: In their case, it's as simple as spend 50, get $20 back as cash rebate, and that cash rebate they can do for whatever they want and then what amount that they're not, what amount they're not using. Hey, that is just earning you additional, you know, um, rewards as loyalty points. So things of that nature.
[00:45:51] Suruchi: Like, it, it, it needs to be simplified to a great extent. And in our case with this, with an application that is as massive as this and the, and a market that is as large as this, we certainly would be able to do that or at least we are, we, we are striving to, you know, be able to do that. So that said, there's a lot of work to be done
[00:46:13] dean: I was gonna ask you what the world would look like in your opinion, if giant is maximally successful over the next decade. But I think you've said that you're building a global decentralized connectivity layer that anyone can access and everyone can access.
[00:46:28] dean: Um, do you have user goals in mind? Is there anything you want to kind of add to that big vision that you've, you've painted for us?
[00:46:35] Suruchi: Yeah. So we are, I mean, with Giant, our, our vision is to really, um, like have every person on the planet that has a mobile phone to be able to own Giant. And then, um, after that we will, we will turn another illiquid market into a liquid market. So essentially the idea being that all of us, uh, or the majority of the world already that is using internet, has access to giant, by virtue of simply using internet, they can, they would then be able to not only of course, use this for just buying more internet connectivity, but then also imagine, you know, there are all these farmers that have, these have the land and then they're growing crops that just don't have a market for it yet.
[00:47:23] Suruchi: Like in the developed markets, we certainly have markets for them, but then in the developing markets or emerging markets, there's just no way for them to do that. So it's like, uh, we can then tackle another illiquid market and create a liquid market for it. So it's a massive long term vision from that standpoint.
[00:47:42] Suruchi: We're just getting started. So, so, so I guess in summary, what I was, what I was basically saying, Um, going back to my childhood and that upbringing, I am fortunate to have that limitless thinking mindset where I actually genuinely believe that limitation is only in the mind of the entrepreneur. we, there's, there's no lack of ambition here in terms of us being able. make this accessible to billions of people on the planet, and that's what we are going after, essentially.
[00:48:14] dean: Well, I look forward to following your journey. I am, uh, I have no doubt that you're going exciting places, so we're honored to be along for the ride. , so thank you so much for your time. This was a wonderful conversation. Go join the Discord. Go check out giant protocol. I'll leave all those links in the show notes.
[00:48:32] dean: I highly encourage checking it out. This is a game-changing protocol that you're hearing about. So thanks again and , to be continued.
[00:48:42] Suruchi: Thanks for having me Dean.